September 1963

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07. September 1963 – Materialists: Protestants and Jews

The other day, for some question of work, I was led to explain my position from the standpoint of the materialist conviction (I don't know what their position is today, because that's something I am not concerned with generally), but anyway I was led to do it because of a certain work.

For them, all the experiences men have are the result of a mental phenomenon: we have reached a progressive mental development (they are at a loss to explain why or how!), anyhow it was Matter that developed Life, Life that developed Mind, and all of men's so-called spiritual experiences are mental constructions (they use other words, but I believe that's their idea). It is, at any rate, a denial of all spiritual existence in itself and of a Being or Force or Something superior which governs everything.

As I said, I don't know what their position is today, what point they have reached, but I was in the presence of a conviction of that type.

Then I said, "But it's very simple! I accept your point of view, there is nothing other than what we see, than mankind as it is; all the so-called inner phenomena are due to a mental, cerebral action; and when you die, you die – in other words, the phenomenon of agglomeration comes to the end of its existence, and it dissolves, everything dissolves. That's all very well."

(Quite likely, had things been that way, I would have found life so disgusting that I would have left it long ago. But I must add right away that it's not for any moral or even spiritual reason that I disapprove of suicide, it's because to me it's an act of cowardice and something in me doesn't like cowardice, so I did not... I would never have fled from the problem.)

That's one point.

"But then, once you are here on this earth and you have to go to the end, even if the end is nothingness, you go to the end and it's just as well to do so as best you can, that is to say, to your fullest satisfaction.... I happened to have some philosophical curiosity and to study all kinds of problems, and I came upon Sri Aurobindo's teaching, and what he taught" (I would say "revealed," but not to a materialist) "is by far, among the systems men have formulated, the most satisfying FOR ME, the most complete, and what answers the most satisfactorily all the questions that can be asked; it is the one that helps me the most in life to have the feeling that 'life is worth living.' Consequently, I try to conform entirely to his teaching and to live it integrally in order to live as best I can – for me. I don't mind at all if others don't believe in it – whether they believe in it or not is all the same to me; I don't need the support of others' conviction, it's enough if I am myself satisfied."

Well, there's no reply to that.

The experience lasted a long time – for all details, to all problems, that's what I answered. And when I came to the end, I said to myself, "But that's a wonderful argument!" Because all the elements of doubt, ignorance, incomprehension, bad will, negation, with that argument they were all muzzled – annulled, they had no effect.

That work, I think, must have had worldwide repercussions. I was in it, in that state (with the sense of a very great power and a wonderful freedom) for certainly at least six or eight hours. (The work had started long before, but it became rather acutely present these last few days.)

And afterwards, everything was held in a solid grip – what do you have to say?

(silence)

It's much easier to answer out-and-out materialists who are convinced and sincere ("sincere" within the limit of their consciousness, that is) than to answer people who have a religion! Much easier.

With Indians, it's very easy – they're heaven-blessed, these people, because it takes very little for them to be oriented in the right way. But there are two types of difficult religion, the Christian religion (especially in the form of Protestantism), and the Jewish religion.

The Jews are also out-and-out materialists: you die, well, you die, it's over. Though I haven't quite understood how they reconcile that with their God, who moreover is Unthinkable and must not be named... but who, seen from the standpoint of a vaster truth, seems (I am not sure), seems to be an Asura. Because it's an almighty and UNIQUE God, foreign to the world – the world (as far as I know) and he are two completely different things.

(silence)

But for instance, I told you I spoke with the Pope for quite a long time the day of his election, and the conversation was abruptly interrupted by a reaction he had. (It was really a mental conversation we were having: I spoke, he replied, I heard his reply – I don't know whether he was conscious of something... probably not, but anyway; it wasn't at all a formation of my own mind because I received quite unexpected replies.) But the conversation was interrupted abruptly by a reaction he had when I told him that God is everywhere and in all things; that everything is He; and then a great Force came down into me and I added, "Even when you descend into Hell, He is there too."

Then everything stopped dead.

Since then I've learned that it's part of their teaching: that what is terrible in Hell isn't so much the suffering, but that there is no God there; that it's the only part of the creation in which there is no God – there is no God in Hell. And I asserted that He is there too.

But naturally, from an intellectual point of view, all those things are explained and find their place – man has never thought anything that wasn't the distortion of a truth. That's not the difficulty, it's that for religious people there are certain things they have a DUTY to believe, and to allow the mind to discuss them is a "sin" – so naturally they close themselves and will never be able to make any progress. Whereas the materialists, on the other hand, are on the contrary supposed to know and explain everything – they explain everything rationally. So (Mother laughs), precisely because they explain everything, you can lead them where you want to.

If they cling to a religion, it means that that religion has helped them somehow or other, has helped something in them which in fact wanted to have a certitude without having to seek for it – to lean on something solid without being responsible for its solidity (someone else is responsible! [Mother laughs]), and to leave their bodies in that way. So to want to pull them out of it shows a lack of compassion – they should just be left where they are. Never do I argue with someone who has a faith – let him keep his faith! And I take great care not to say anything that might shake his faith because it's not good – such people are unable to have another faith.

But with a materialist... "I don't argue, I accept your point of view; only, you have nothing to say – I've taken my position, take yours. If you are satisfied with what you know, keep it. If it helps you to live, very good.

"But you have no right to blame or criticize me, because I am taking my position on your own basis. Even if all that I imagine is mere imagination, I prefer that imagination to yours." That's all.

18. September 1963 – Mother's experience

I had an interesting experience the day before yesterday.

In a very concrete way, there was the consciousness that everything is the Lord and that everything is His will, His action, His consciousness and so forth; at the same time, the perception of the world as it is ("as it is," anyway... as we feel it). And as there was no longer any notion of good and evil and all that, there was a sort of almost candid surprise, a very spontaneous surprise, not thought out, at reprobation, anger, disapproval, scorn for all the people who are called "bad," who do evil and have bad will. It seemed so strange that one could lose one's temper because of that! Then there arose a profound Pity – but a Pity that has nothing of the sense of superiority or inferiority, nothing like that – like a sort of sorrow that there can be people who are so small and so weak in that Immensity that they are COMPELLED to be nasty and malicious, to hate, to reject, to wish evil.

The words diminish the experience very, very much. It was so... a super-compassion, you know, full of a deep Love and Understanding: "How can one reproach them for being the way the Lord wants them to be?"

Then, when it all settled down, several hours afterwards, I wrote something – I wrote it in French (even with the will that it should not be translated into English). And as a matter of fact it's untranslatable. Here is what I wrote:

Ce monde est plein de misères pitoyables,

mais les êtres que je plains le plus

sont ceux qui ne sont pas assez grands

et assez forts pour être bons.

But then the word bon [good] no longer had that sense of opposition to "evil": it contained all the divine splendor. It was the radiance of divine Love.

(silence)

Any translation of the word bon [good] into English is very small and all the way down. I didn't want to put it into English. But today, all at once it came to me in English and I wrote it down:

This world is full of pitiable miseries,

but of all beings those I pity most are

those who are so small and so weak that

they are compelled to be nasty.

It's seen from the opposite side, but there is as much in it as in the first.

***

When I have an experience, I don't even try to formulate it – I never try: I live it as intensely as I can and keep it alive as long as I can. Then suddenly there's a kind of rivulet: a rivulet of words that come, and they come all together, then they arrange themselves – I have nothing to do with it all! I don't know whether it's listening or seeing: it's something in between. For a very long time, all my contacts with the invisible were visual contacts, but now there is sound too. So this is how it works: I simply have to be attentive, that is to say, not actively busy with something else. If I stay still, it comes: it's exactly like a rivulet, a tiny rivulet flowing out of a mountain; it's very clear and pure like pure water, very transparent, and very white and luminous at the same time. It comes (gesture as of pearls of water dropping) and it arranges itself here, just above the head, in the form of words. It arranges itself, and someone, I don't know who (probably Sri Aurobindo! because it's someone with a poetic power), looks after the sound and the placement of the words, and puts them in the proper order. Finally, after a little while, it's complete. And then I write it down – it's very amusing. That's what happened with the English translation: I had said with authority, "It will not be translated." Then this morning, when I wasn't thinking of anything at all, it came all on its own. That is to say, to be precise, I was telling the fact to someone who knows English better than French, so I said it in English, and once it was said I noticed, "Well, well! Ah, that's it, that's right!" It was the experience that had expressed itself in English. But thank God, all this (gesture to the head) has nothing to do with it – quiet... oh, so peaceful. (silence) There is almost a paroxysm of disorder and confusion in all the affairs of the earth (at the Ashram too – maybe even worse than elsewhere! No, not worse but just as bad!), and it seems to be reaching new heights: almost hour by hour I discover confusion... confusion, disorder (before I would have called it mischief, but now...). And what confusion!... People who are convinced that they know how to deal with things (they know far better than the Lord, far better – the Lord is completely ignorant of the things of this world, but THEY know better), and then the blunders they commit! And when they've committed a blunder, after a while they realize it's a blunder, so to make it good they commit another blunder! Everything is like that here, absolutely everything, with all sorts of blunders. And once they have thoroughly bungled, piled up blunder upon blunder and landed themselves in a complete mess, they think of asking me! (laughing) They ask me, "What should we do?" So I answer, "It's about time!"

But what's marvelous is that nothing stirs here (gesture to the head), nothing stirs. And the Lord smiles.

***

I had several hours of concentration regarding that decrease of energy in your body; not an illness: a decrease of energy in your body (you add mental things to it, but that's your affair, mon petit, you will correct that). I had several hours of concentration, and I even reproached the Lord, telling Him that really if that's the effect I have on people, (laughing) it's not worth mentioning, I'd better leave! (There was a conjunction of a good number of things.) I don't believe a word of my complaint! But anyway... (laughing) I make it "just like that."

Immediately, there came a massive descent, and everything was blissful – I said to myself, "Lord, it's up to You. It's up to You to have me here, it's up to You to have me act; I don't act, You are the one who acts. The result is up to You, but... as far as I can see, if I am allowed to see, I don't find that logical!"

Then I was told (but not with words), very clearly and very strongly, that it was a transition necessary for your integral development – INTEGRAL. And that I shouldn't worry.

Though I do....

He has absolutely convinced me that you will come out of it grown in stature, enlightened (not in the sense of deranged!), illuminated, and much stronger. Voilà.

I even added something which I am not supposed to tell you, but anyway... (usually it's left unsaid), I added that I needed you. And that consequently nothing should happen to you.

The answer was a smile.

Afterwards it came to me that it was a transition. So I hope it won't last too long.

A little change in your mental attitude is necessary; what in fact we could call a little cure of a pessimism – or a big cure of a little pessimism! Voilà... somewhere: it's for you to know where.

But it's a transition, nothing other than a transition.

The body is very ignorant (that we know, it goes without saying!), so the minute something is wrong with it, I can't say it gets afraid, but it feels it's VERY serious (laughing) – always! (I know this from experience, for myself.) Until you have CAREFULLY explained to it that it should be a good boy, keep very quiet, not be afraid and... let itself be carried along.

It always answers, "But look at all those people who die, all those who are sick, all those..." But now, I answer my body, "There are enough sick people as it is, no need to imitate them!"

(silence)

Above all, there is a kind of coexistence, of juxtaposition of two things that are really opposite states yet always seem to be together: a Peace in which everything is harmonious (I am speaking of the body's cells), everything is harmonious to the point that no disorder can occur, no illness, no suffering, no disorganization or decomposition can occur – impossible; it's a Peace that's eternal, absolutely beyond time (though it is felt in the body's cells); and at the same time, a tremor – an ignorant and bustling and dark tremor, dark in the sense that it's unaware of its ignorance, not knowing what to do and doing useless things all the time. And in that state you find disorder, decomposition, disorganization, suffering and... at times it becomes acute, acute, all the nerves are tense and it aches all over – and both states are together.

"Are together," I mean to the point that you don't even feel you make a movement of reversal, you don't even know how you go from one state to the other, you... the reversal is imperceptible.

And they are exactly opposite.

You can, in much less time than a flash, eliminate any pain, any disorder, any illness from your body; and in a flash, it can all come back. And then you can switch from one to the other, from one to the other... (back-and-forth gesture).

The point not yet grasped or understood is how to stabilize that Peace.

When It's there, you feel as if nothing can alter It: all the attacks in the world fall away, powerless; nothing can alter It. And It disappears the same way It came, there's no knowing how.

If I observe very carefully, I have the impression that the mind of Matter Sri Aurobindo refers to, you know, the thought of Matter, isn't yet pure, it's still mixed; so it only takes one wrong movement for everything to come undone. And in people, that material mind lives in its wrong movement constantly – except a flash once in a while: a reversal. But here [in Mother], there still remains a habit; a habit (almost like a mere memory) of the wrong movement. And it only has to recur even as tiny as a pinpoint for... brrt! everything to fall back into the old rut.

But when I see the care I've taken for so many years to purify that fellow, I am a little (what should I say?)... I can't say frightened or anxious, but... (I can't even say pessimistic), but the condition of people who haven't done all the yoga I've done for years, how difficult it must be! Because the body's cells obey that material mind, which, in its natural state, is a mass of stupid ignorance that thinks it's so smart, oh!... An almost foul mass of stupidity, and it thinks it's so smart! It thinks it knows everything.

(silence)

Because NOTHING in the consciousness budged during those changeovers [back and forth from the true to the false movement]; the consciousness is like that, turned... not upward, not inward, turned... simply turned to the Lord, living in His Light, which, in the physical world, becomes a golden splendor. The consciousness is turned to That. There is nothing but That, it's the sole reality, the sole truth. And It vibrates like this (Mother touches her hands, her arms), It vibrates in all the cells, everywhere. I go like this (Mother makes a gesture of collecting "it" in the air around), as if I picked it up. It isn't ethereal, it's very material; it feels like an air that is thick – but vibrant, very vibrant.... The consciousness is like that. And all this goes on in the body. But with the presence of that old idiot... which is immediately pessimistic, catastrophic, defeatist – how defeatist, oh... it sees everything as a calamity. And then that wonderful character, after imagining the worse (in the space of a second, of course), it submits it all to the Lord and tells Him, "Here, Lord, here is Your work, it's all Yours, do what You will with it"! The silly idiot, why did it have to prepare its catastrophes! A catastrophe, invariably a catastrophe, everything is catastrophic – but it offers its catastrophe to the Lord!

And the answer is invariably a smile full of such patience, oh!... That patience gives me a sense of wonder every second.

Now and then, a great power comes (the body is deliberately given the experience to make it feel and grow aware that "that" exists), a great power comes, and along with it the impression that you would only have to do this (Mother brings down her two arms in a sovereign gesture) for everything to change. But...

It's still much, much too limited and ignorant for that Power to be allowed to act. It [Mother's individuality] sees many sides of the question, but not all. It isn't... in spite of everything, it has its own angle – as long as there remains an angle, the Power isn't allowed to act.

Though, yes, there was that experience the other day, when all was the Lord, all, with all things as they are, as we see them; when all was That in SUCH a perfect whole, perfect because it was so complete, and so harmonious because it was so conscious, and in a perpetual Movement of progression towards a greater perfection. (That's something odd, things can't stay still for a quarter of a second: they are constantly, constantly, constantly progressing towards a more perfect Totality.) Then, at that moment, if the Power acts (probably it does act), if the Power acts, it acts as it should. But it isn't always there – it isn't always there, there is still a sense of the things that are to fade away and of those that are to come – of the passage; a progression which... which isn't all-containing.

But in that state, it seems that what you see MUST be – and inevitably (I should say necessarily), it is. And probably instantly so. But you have to see the whole at once for your vision to be all-powerful. If you see only one point (as, for example, when you feel that the action on earth is limited to a certain field that depends on you), as long as you see that way, you can't be all-powerful, it's not possible – not possible. It's inevitably conditioned.

(long silence)

There is a growing feeling that all that is, all that happens, outwardly and inwardly (inwardly too) is absolutely necessary for the totality of the whole.

I am thinking, for instance, of that sort of reaction I had the other day.... Naturally there is a part of the being that looks on, that smiles and says, "Oh, aren't you beyond that yet!" And at the same time, I saw, "No, it's necessary – everything is necessary." A special vibration was necessary... necessary to trigger something else. And everything works like that.

Everything works like that.

(silence)

It's a transitional period – but isn't the transitional period constant?! It must be constant. Only, a point comes nevertheless when it becomes absolutely conscious and willed, and then it no longer has the same character.

Basically, once we have emerged from Stupidity, there is... there should be a rather considerable change.

Oh, there would be a world of things to say!

(silence)

It is impossible for any change, any change towards perfection (I don't mean a regression, because that's another phenomenon), it's impossible for any change, even in one element or one point of the earth consciousness, not to make the whole earth participate in that change. Necessarily.

Everything is closely knit together. And a vibration somewhere has TERRESTRIAL consequences – I don't say universal, I say terrestrial – necessarily.

Which means there isn't one aspiration, not one effort that isn't useful seen from the terrestrial standpoint (from the individual standpoint, this has been obvious for a very long time), but seen from the terrestrial standpoint, there isn't one effort – not one effort towards the Better, not one aspiration to the True – that does not have terrestrial repercussions, terrestrial consequences.

25. September 1963 – Pure Love

It came in English. (I want to put it in the Bulletin to fill a gap!) We should put it in French, too.

Love is... (no need to say that it's the condensation of an experience — an experience I leave unsaid).

Love is not sexual intercourse.

Love is not vital attraction and interchange.

Love is not the heart's hunger for affection.

Love is a mighty vibration coming straight from the One.

And only the very pure and very strong are capable of receiving and manifesting it.

Then an explanation on what I mean by "pure," the very pure and very strong:

To be pure is to be open only to the Supreme's influence, and to no other.

Far more difficult than what people consider purity to be! Which is something quite artificial and false.

The thing is new to me. That's what I told you the other day: first an experience, but an experience... something that takes HOLD of the entire being, the entire body, everything, everything, like this (grasping gesture) and keeps you in its hold. And it works. It works everywhere in the cells: absolutely everywhere, in the consciousness, in the sensation, in the cells. Then it settles, as if passing through a very fine sieve, and it falls back to the other side — as words. But not always arranged in sentences (it's very odd): two words here, three words there (Mother seems to show patches of color here and there). Then I keep very still, I don't stir — above all I don't think, don't stir — silence. Then, little by little, the words start a dance, and when they form a reasonably coherent sentence, I write it down. But generally it isn't final. If I wait a little longer (even while doing something else), after a time it comes: a sentence that has a far more logical and striking existence. And if I wait still longer, it becomes more precise, until finally it comes with a feeling, "Now this is it." That's what happened with the English note: "Now this is it." Good, so I write it down.

I never had that before. Everything had to fall silent (I mean even the most active and material outer mind), I had to get into the habit, when my experience comes, of not stirring — not stirring, nothing stirring, everything like this (gesture in suspense), waiting.

Even visually, it almost looks like a fine rain of white light, and after a time, that fine rain seems to make the words grow, as if it were watering the words! And the words come. Then they start a sort of dance, a quadrille, and when the quadrille has taken a clear shape, then the sentence becomes clear.

Very amusing.

It's already the third time that's happened — brand new.

So when I note it all down, the result is all sorts of papers! (Mother shows the stack of drafts)

And now, with that new process, the papers will go on multiplying! Because it comes the way I told you [in successive bits]. But it has an advantage: the mind stays absolutely silent — the mind need not do anything, it's as if someone came to look for the words in a storehouse and made all the arrangements. And that someone is impersonal: an impersonal consciousness. Almost "the consciousness of what wants to be expressed," the consciousness of a revelation or an instruction, or the consciousness of a will, but not of a person. That someone collects the words and puts them together, then there is a dance... like a dance of electrons!

(silence)

The other day, the process was less complete, but it was something similar, a first hint: K. had sent me an article he wanted to publish somewhere with quotations from Sri Aurobindo and myself, and he wanted to make sure it was correct and he hadn't muddled it (!) In one place, I saw a comment by him (you know how people delight in wordplays when they are fully in the mind: the mind loves to play with words and contrast one sentence with another), it was in English, I am not quoting word for word, but he said that "the age of religions was the age of the gods"; and, naturally, as our Mr. Mind loves to play with words, it made him say that, now, the age of the gods is over and it is "the age of God" — which means he was deplorably falling back into the Christian religion... without noticing it! And just as I saw his written sentence, I saw that tendency of the mind which loves it and finds it very... oh, charming, such a nice turn of phrase (!) I didn't say anything, I went on to the end of his article. Then where that sentence was I saw a little light shining: it was like a little spark (I saw that with my eyes open). I looked at my spark, and in the place of God, there was The One. So I took my pen and made the correction.

But my first translation was The All-Containing One, because it was an experience, not a thought. What I saw was The One containing all. And innocently, I wrote it down on a paper (Mother shows a little scrap of paper): The All-Containing One. But just then, I saw what looked like someone giving me a slap and telling me, "Not that: you should put The One, that's all." So I wrote The One.

That's how it works!

It's really thought seen from above, from a height, and it's very amusing. Very amusing, it all plays, it's like little will-o'-the-wisps coming out from here and there, doing a dance, arranging themselves — very amusing.

It's beginning to be amusing. It has been very strong lately — it's been coming at night, in daytime, all the time.

But the night before, I was with Sri Aurobindo, who gave me a revelation. I was with him, he was reclining (not stretched out but on a sort of chaise longue) and I was supposed to bring him something to eat (not at all like physical food, it's something else... I don't know what it is... it's rather different in that world — the subtle physical), and it was expressed to me... (there were no words in my consciousness; I don't know why, no words), he told me something which I understood perfectly, not only understood but it made me very happy, a joy came into me, and I answered, "Yes, exactly! It corresponds to the experience I had today and which is...???" (Mother leaves her sentence hanging) You see, I was conscious while I was having all the activity, but it was expressed in words there that aren't words here, so I don't know what to do! And he told me in the tone you take when expressing a definitive and overwhelming experience (his tone was one of absolute power) something that was translated like this: Now, the nourishment (it wasn't nourishment but food) comes from the whole of Nature at once. (Mother utters those words like a riddle or an open sesame that has not yet opened the door) And he told me to bring it to him (that too was a translation): Yes, you will bring it (the it was that food coming from the whole Nature at once — it's a seemingly silly transcription, but anyway...), you will bring it in this translucent bowl. And I replied, Yes, I knew, I knew that I had to use this translucent bowl to bring you the food.... But what on earth does that correspond to??... Yet it was so evident! There was such a joy! (Because as I was conscious, I thought, "Well, all the same, I am still following him closely in his development, it's going on as when he was here: when he wins a victory, it is materialized in me.") Thus I was perfectly conscious and I told him, Ah, I am glad!... (I am faltering, of course, it wasn't that at all—it was admirable.) Oh, I am glad, I knew that I had to bring you the food in this translucent bowl.... And the translucent bowl was a marvel! I had it, you see, it was beautiful! It was like opaline, living glass, all luminous but with all the lights alive and moving, and what colors!... Pink, mauve, silver and gold, oh, it was so very beautiful. And I brought it to him.

It impressed me very strongly. Very strongly: I was under a spell, probably because the experience was still too strong and powerful for the material brain. And I saw it immediately; at the very moment of the experience, I saw it was a transcription, and an extraordinarily poor transcription, but nothing better could be done.

And such details!... There was a whole story (which lasted even more than an hour and a half)... with all the details. Because where I was with him was an upper floor and when I came down I met people, did some things and so on. It was the upper floor. And it all went on in a dazzling light, dazzling, dazzling; everything was as though in a blazing sun... much brighter than the sun — the sun is dark in such a case.

And when I came downstairs (it wasn't like here: everyone had his own house and garden, it was a huge estate), I went straight to my bathroom. I open the door... and whom do I find there but someone (I recognized him, but I won't name him) who was using it— "Well," I thought, "that's a fine thing!" And I closed the door again. All kinds of details, it lasted more than an hour. And you know, the number of things that can happen in an hour and a half at night....

Once again I was tall — I am always tall. But I hadn't dressed as I do usually: I wore a short dress. There were lots of people there; I recognized everyone, I could hear everyone's voice, it was very, very distinct. And there were two girls (not girls, they're women now, but to me they were like girls), two girls talking to each other and saying, "How strong her legs are!" (It's symbolic.) And at the same time, I saw my legs as if there were a mirror to show them to me! I had a short dress and I saw my legs and my two feet with shoes on — my feet had shoes on. And a short dress. Very active.

Last night was less pleasant.... There were again those things collapsing. I was below, you see, trying to go back up to my room, and every time I tried to go back up, all the means to do so disappeared or were done away with. Now I've chased it all away because it was tiring. But one thing I do remember: I was climbing up a sort of... not stairs or a ladder, it was a very queer thing, like blocks of dark red stone, and they were all crumbling — and coming apart. It ended up annoying me, and I had a movement not of anger, but of self-assertive will — and everything vanished.... You feel it's adverse formations trying to harass you, until I can't say I lose patience, but something gets angry (is it "angry"? Asserts itself, rather: "Ah, no! Enough!") and instantly, pfft! it all goes away. But then I found myself on a road I knew very well, but there was such a crowd! A crowd, a crowd: all the schools of the world were coming there for their holidays. There were troops of kids led by matrons and teachers, myriads and myriads of them!... And also children who stopped and played on the ground; but all those children knew me very well, and when I arrived, they would take their things out of the way to let me through — weeny little kids this high. Then I met a symbolic person (not a human person) whom I know very well, she was pale blue (that is to say, a being of the higher mind, a force of Nature in the higher mind), I know her very well, she is very often with me. She explained to me her difficulties and I explained to her what she should do; I told her, "I've already told you several times, it's like this and like that...." She stayed beside me a very long time, and she asked me, "Why do I always have to leave you?" I answered her, "Don't worry; everything is fine now." It went on for a long time. But it was interesting, a very pleasant, very refined contact: a beautiful girl — that is, a beautiful thought or a beautiful idea. A beautiful girl. And she had in her charge an innumerable amount of kids (Mother laughs), so she was somewhat worried at times, and I explained to her what she should do.

(silence)

But that experience [of the crumbling stairs], I know what it corresponds to, because I know the experience I had when I went to sleep: it's always when I am confronted with the Problem.... I could put it this way (but that diminishes it a lot), "Why is the world the way it is?" Then there comes to me that sort of... it's an INTENSE state of compassion — intense, almost painful — for the condition of the world and humanity. When that comes, I have those difficulties at night. And then I ask, I want to know the REAL secret — not all the things people have told (which all seem to me just like a story to... to comfort children), but the REAL thing. When I go into deep rest with that tension, it's always translated by those things collapsing: I try to climb and crunch! crunch! crunch! all the time, all the time everything crumbles under the weight of my ascent. Until I see that ill will trying to stop me from finding what I want to find, so I get angry and it stops instantly — is "angry" the word? I don't know: I refuse, I refuse the situation. Then it stops short.

And I awake saying to myself, "You see, it's all your fault: as long as you accept, you cannot know, you are in the dark; when you really refuse, you will know."

So I answer, "When the Lord wants me to know, I will know; when it's necessary for me to know, I will know."

28. September 1963 – Savitri: Debate with Death; Earth significance

Do you remember Savitri's debate with Death ["The Debate of Love and Death"]?... According to it, Sri Aurobindo seems to be saying that Disorder arose when Life entered Matter.

(Mother leafs through her thick translation notebook)

Although God made the world for his delight,

An ignorant Power took charge and seemed his Will

In other words, that Power assumed the appearance of God's Will.

And Death's deep falsity has mastered Life.

All grew a play of Chance simulating Fate.

(X.III.629)

And before, Sri Aurobindo writes:

O Death, this is the mystery of thy reign.

He seems to imply it's only on earth:

In earth's anomalous and tragic field

Carried in its aimless journey by the sun

Mid the forced marches of the great dumb stars,

A darkness occupied the fields of God,

(Mother repeats)

A darkness occupied the fields of God,

And Matter's world was governed by thy shape.

The shape of Death.

Thy mask has covered the Eternal's face,

It's marvelous!

The Bliss that made the world has fallen asleep.

Abandoned in the Vast she slumbered on:

An evil transmutation overtook

Her members till she knew herself no more.

(X.III.627)

And so on, a whole passage. And he seems to imply that it's when Life entered inert Matter that an ignorant Power... what I read at the beginning:

An ignorant Power took charge and seemed his Will

And Death's deep falsity has mastered Life.

Consequently, according to this, Death would exist only on the earth.

(silence)

That's where I am in my translation. (Mother closes her notebook)

I'll have to go to the end to understand what he wants to demonstrate.

You see, I was always under the impression that the earth was a symbolic representation of the universe in order to concentrate the Work on one point so that it could be done more consciously and deliberately. And I was always under the impression that Sri Aurobindo too thought that way. But here... I had read Savitri without noticing this. But now that I read it and I am so immersed in that problem... In other words, it's as if it were THE question given me to resolve.

I noticed it while reading.

(long silence)

It would seem to legitimize or justify those who want to escape entirely from the earth's atmosphere. The idea would be that the earth is a special experiment of the Supreme in His universe; and those who are not too keen on that experiment (!) prefer to get out of it (to say things somewhat offhandedly).

The difference is this: In one case, the purpose of the earth is a concentration of the Work (which means it can be done more rapidly, consciously and perfectly here), and so there is a serious reason to stay on and do it. In the other case, it's just one experiment amidst thousands or millions of others; and if that experiment doesn't particularly appeal to you, to want to get out of it is legitimate.

We can very well conceive that He may be carrying on some very different experiments. And so you could go from one experiment to another, you see.

It would be as Buddha said: it's attachment or desire that keeps you here, otherwise there's no reason for you to stay here.

Everything is possible to me, you know, absolutely everything, even the seemingly most contradictory things — really, I am totally unable to raise a mental or logical or reasonable objection either to this or to that. But the question... (Mother leaves her sentence unfinished). That is to say, the Lord's Will is very clear to Him, and (laughing) the whole thing is to unite with that Will and know it.

It had always seemed to me that way [the earth as a symbolic point of concentration], but I am so convinced that Sri Aurobindo saw things more truly and totally than anyone did that, naturally, when he says something, you tend to consider the problem!

I don't know, I haven't reached the end of Savitri yet. Because I notice (rereading it after the space of a few months, barely two years) that it's altogether something else than the first time I read it. Altogether something else: there is in it infinitely more than what I had experienced; my experience was limited, and now it's far more complete (maybe if I reread it in a year or two, it would be still more complete, I don't know), but there are plenty of things that I hadn't seen the first time.

Perhaps that passage I've just read is only one aspect?... I will see when I reach the end.

What he announces, and what I am sure of, is that the Victory will be won on the earth and that the earth will become a progressive being (eternally progressive) in the Lord — that's understood. But it doesn't preclude the other possibility. The future of the earth he has announced clearly, and it's understood that such is the future of the earth; only, if that possibility [of death as an exclusively earthly phenomenon] is what we could term "historically" correct, it would sort of legitimize the attitude of those who get away from it. How is it that Buddha, who undeniably was an Avatar, laid so much stress on Deliverance as the conclusion of things? He who stayed behind only to help others... to get away faster. Then that means he saw only one side of the problem?...

But if there is a whole universe, thousands of universes with altogether different modes, and if to be here is merely a matter of CHOICE... then the choice is free, of course — there are those who like conquest and victory, and those others who like doing nothing.

We can conceive it was a particular necessity within the whole, of course. But these are all conceptions, it's still something mental — I recently had in my hands a quotation from Sri Aurobindo in which he said that there is "no problem the human mind cannot solve if it wants to." (Laughing) There is no problem that the mind cannot solve if it applies itself to it! But I don't care, I have no need of mental logic — no need. And it would have no effect on my action — that's not what I want, not at all! It's only because there is that increasingly acute contradiction between the Truth and what is. It's becoming painfully acute. You know, that suffering, that general misery is becoming almost unbearable.

There was a time when I looked at all that with a smile — a long time. For years and years it was a smile, the way you smile at a childish question. Now, I don't know why it has come... it has been THRUST on me like a sort of acute anguish — which certainly is necessary to get out of the problem.

To get out, I mean, to cure, to change — not to flee. I don't like flight.

That was my major objection to the Buddhists: all that you are advised to do is merely to give you an opportunity to flee — that's not pretty.

But change, yes.

(silence)

There are some lines [in Savitri] that all of a sudden are so magnificent! They come with such power, but once written down, that's not it any more.

For example, you SEE that image of the mask of Death covering the Supreme's face.

It's marvelous.

So intense.

And then that ignorant Power that took charge of the earth and made it... that "seemed," SEEMED the Supreme's Will.

It's so pregnant with meaning.